Nelson Mandela dies at 95

[Adam]

Nelson Mandela dies at 95

Nelson Mandela, who spent 27 years as a prisoner in South Africa for opposing apartheid, then emerged to become his country's first black president, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and an enduring symbol of integrity, principle and resilience, has died at 95.

The announcement was made by South African president Jacob Zuma.

Mandela spent almost three months in a Pretoria hospital after being admitted in June with a recurring lung infection.

Mandela, who once said, "the struggle is my life," was a beloved hero of both South Africa and the world itself. His face was instantly recognizable in virtually any country, his story famous enough that he was portrayed in movies at least four times - by Morgan Freeman ("Invictus"), Sidney Poitier ("Mandela and de Klerk"), Danny Glover ("Mandela") and Dennis Haysbert ("Goodbye Bafana").

Stamps were issued with his likeness, songs written about him, statues erected in his honor everywhere from Johannesburg to London and more than 50 universities around the world awarded him degrees. Even a species of spiders was named in his honor.

Mandela, who had been in increasingly frail health in recent years, retired from public life in 2004. He is survived by his third wife, Graca Machel, three daughters (three other children died) and multiple grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

U.S. President Barack Obama, during a stop in Senegal, called Mandela a personal hero, saying his legacy will "live on throughout the ages."

In one of his last public appearances, televised in May 2012, Mandela sat in an armchair with a blanket pulled over his lap at his rural home in Qunu and received a symbolic flame to mark the centenary of the African National Congress.

Ironically, the leader hailed as a symbol of peace at one point was on a U.S. terror watch list because of his affiliation with the ANC, which was designated a terrorist organization by South Africa’s apartheid government. He was finally taken off the list in 2008.

Mandela, although initially committed to non-violence, had, in fact, once been involved with the militant wing of the ANC, which was founded in association with the South African Communist Party and carried out a campaign of violence against government targets.

[Lanie]

He had a long life. The tragedy was spending years in jail. May he RIP.

[Novaheart]

I suspect that what has been happening in South Africa while Reuters looked the other way, will now explode. South Africa will have a civil war and we will be on the wrong side.

[Adam]

He had a long life. The tragedy was spending years in jail. May he RIP.

I don't really have any problem with someone who blows up buildings and murders people spending some time in jail. I certainly don't consider it a tragedy when they do.

Another murderous terrorist dies far too late. THAT is the tragedy.



And while everyone is getting out their ladders to reach the elevated saddles on their horses, no, I don't think Apartheid was a good thing. Not in the least. So you can just stop forming that accusation in your brain right now (and you KNOW that you are doing just that). But Apartheid was already on its way out before Mandela came along. Kudos to him for the non-violent things he did to hasten its demise, but the simple fact is that he was a hanger-on in that much more than someone who actually caused that to happen. Like every other violent Communist revolutionary, he ascended to power and promptly started living a good life while throwing scraps to those whom he claimed to want to elevate and he left a long trail of the dead bodies of people who were guilty of the crime of disagreeing with him politically.

[Lanie]

You think Mandela was a terrorist?

on edit: Nevermind, I found it. I knew there were some violent acts he chose not to condemn, but didn't realize he was once part of it.

It does look like he was taken off the list.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/05/mandela-dies-age-95/

Ironically, the leader hailed as a symbol of peace at one point was on a U.S. terror watch list because of his affiliation with the ANC, which was designated a terrorist organization by South Africa’s apartheid government. He was finally taken off the list in 2008.

Mandela, although initially committed to non-violence, had, in fact, once been involved with the militant wing of the ANC, which was founded in association with the South African Communist Party and carried out a campaign of violence against government targets.

[Adam]

You think Mandela was a terrorist?

on edit: Nevermind, I found it. I knew there were some violent acts he chose not to condemn, but didn't realize he was once part of it.

It does look like he was taken off the list.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12...a-dies-age-95/

Erm...he was more that "once a part of it." He was a genocidal mass-murderer. He and his first wife, Winnie, literally "perfected" the "necklace," which is the procedure of binding someone's hands, and then putting a tire around their neck, filling it with gasoline, and setting it aflame. This in addition to frequently blowing up everything from courthouses to supermarkets.

Why anyone on earth ever celebrated this genocidal maniac is beyond me.

[scott]

He had a long life. The tragedy was spending years in jail. May he RIP.

The tragedy was his terrorism.

I applaud his reconciliation and he may have indeed become a "net positive" impact on this planet, but make no bones about it. When he was young he was a brutal killer who abandoned his family.


Charity starts at home, folks.

[scott]

You think Mandela was a terrorist?

on edit: Nevermind, I found it. I knew there were some violent acts he chose not to condemn, but didn't realize he was once part of it.

It does look like he was taken off the list.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12...a-dies-age-95/

He was taken off the list because when he was let out of prison he was a broken old man without any hope of obscurity and therefore not a threat.


In his earlier years he and his wife decided who was going to die "for the cause" and it often coincidentally happened to be black people that were accused of being sympathisers. That's right, innocent people who were killed just for possibly disagreeing with them.

[Lanie]

He was taken off the list because when he was let out of prison he was a broken old man without any hope of obscurity and therefore not a threat.


In his earlier years he and his wife decided who was going to die "for the cause" and it often coincidentally happened to be black people that were accused of being sympathisers. That's right, innocent people who were killed just for possibly disagreeing with them.

Off the subject (but still on), you might be interested in knowing that I did declare a while back that the media was definitely liberal. Why? How could I not know about Mandela? (Note: My major focus was not in any way about Africa, so don't pick on me).

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Erm...he was more that "once a part of it." He was a genocidal mass-murderer. He and his first wife, Winnie, literally "perfected" the "necklace," which is the procedure of binding someone's hands, and then putting a tire around their neck, filling it with gasoline, and setting it aflame. This in addition to frequently blowing up everything from courthouses to supermarkets.

Why anyone on earth ever celebrated this genocidal maniac is beyond me.

Shall we speak of those who perfected "tarring and feathering?"

Not to excuse the conduct of Mandela (or Castro, or whoever your whipping boy is today), but only to point out that extreme time beget extreme actions, often in service of a noble cause - or at least, a cause deemed noble by the ultimate winner of the conflict.

[phillygirl]

Shall we speak of those who perfected "tarring and feathering?"

The Brits?

[scott]

Shall we speak of those who perfected "tarring and feathering?"

Not to excuse the conduct of Mandela (or Castro, or whoever your whipping boy is today), but only to point out that extreme time beget extreme actions, often in service of a noble cause - or at least, a cause deemed noble by the ultimate winner of the conflict.

I can forgive unconventional warfare in pursuit of liberty. I can't forgive brutal murder of competitors on the same side and innocents.

[Lanie]

I can forgive unconventional warfare in pursuit of liberty. I can't forgive brutal murder of competitors on the same side and innocents.

I thought you believed in forgiveness. Keep in mind you're not hurting Mandela. (Note: Not a pro-Mandela argument).

[scott]

I thought you believed in forgiveness. Keep in mind you're not hurting Mandela. (Note: Not a pro-Mandela argument).

I do believe in forgiveness, but I'm not perfect.

[Adam]

I can forgive unconventional warfare in pursuit of liberty. I can't forgive brutal murder of competitors on the same side and innocents.

Personally, I see a big difference between warfare against a government (which Mandela was engaged in prior to his arrest) and the abject murder of innocents, most particularly in ludicrously and needlessly brutal fashions. The ANC and the MK were involved in both, before Mandela went to prison. I will grant that Mandela went to prison prior to the most egregious of the murderous campaign of the ANC and the MK took place, but his imprisonment hardly excuses the decades of violence and death that he personally set in motion. It's not like it's some sort of accident that those militants wound up blowing up shopping centers and hospitals and whatnot; Mandela set that in motion, and he did so not only knowing that this would be the ultimate outcome, but indeed exalting that idea.

One of the many blubberers on the Sunday shows managed to tip Mandela's hand a bit, pointing out that when they interviewed Mandela after he was released from prison, he claimed to have been glad to have been arrested when he did, because the bombing campaign then started targeting innocents, and he didn't want their blood on his hands. What a ludicrous justification! This was an intelligent, educated man; it's not like he somehow could not, much less did not, foresee that his own militancy campaign would kill innocents in his brand of "justice." But I guess you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, right?



I'm glad Apartheid ended in South Africa. I opposed it at the time as being an inequitable application of the law. Apartheid was, ultimately, an extension of the last vestiges of Naziism, after all: pro-Nazi Germans flocked to South Africa and helped throw off British Colonialism (the National Party) and then instituted Apartheid. Most certainly not a good thing. So there is no doubt that Apartheid was a very bad thing, in the objective as well as the subjective. The narrative has been constructed that criticism of Mandela = approval of Apartheid. It's patently untrue, but that's most definitely the narrative that was constructed at the time and is being reconstructed today. That's simply not objectively true.

Mandela was a murderer, then and now, by any objective standard. I don't know of a single person that Adolf Hitler personally shot, but no sane person would not consider him a mass-murderer. The same standard necessarily applies to Mandela. I think it's great that he tried to pursue some manner of "reconciliation" after he was released from prison and was elected, but it's absolute folly to hail him as some sort of hero. He was a murderous thug throughout his life, including after he was elected, and he was utterly unrepentant about that basic fact.

I have to admit that I was somewhat aghast to see, on life television this morning, his ex-wife, his enforcement arm, Winnie, actually walking into a church to mourn him. Wow.