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  • The Mobility Myth

    The Mobility Myth





    Since at least the days of Horatio Alger, a cornerstone of American thinking has been the hope of social mobility—the idea that, as Lawrence Samuel put it in a history of the American dream, anyone can, “through dedication and with a can-do spirit, climb the ladder of success.” In recent years, though, plenty of Americans have come to believe that, as President Obama said in his State of the Union address, “upward mobility has stalled.” So it was a surprise recently when a team of economists from Harvard and Berkeley released a comprehensive study showing that mobility in the U.S. hasn’t fallen over the past twenty years at all. “Like many people, we thought mobility would have declined,” Raj Chetty, one of the researchers on the project, told me. “But what we found was that kids born in the early nineteen-nineties had the same chances of climbing up the income ladder as kids born in the seventies.” Even more striking, when the researchers looked at studies tracking economic mobility going back to the fifties, they concluded that it had remained relatively stable over the entire second half of the twentieth century.

    That sounds like good news, but there’s a catch: there wasn’t that much mobility to begin with. According to Chetty, “Social mobility is low and has been for at least thirty or forty years.” This is most obvious when you look at the prospects of the poor. Seventy per cent of people born into the bottom quintile of income distribution never make it into the middle class, and fewer than ten per cent get into the top quintile. Forty per cent are still poor as adults. What the political scientist Michael Harrington wrote back in 1962 is still true: most people who are poor are poor because “they made the mistake of being born to the wrong parents.” The middle class isn’t all that mobile, either: only twenty per cent of people born into the middle quintile ever make it into the top one. And although we think of U.S. society as archetypally open, mobility here is lower than in most European countries.

    This wasn’t always the case. As the economist Joseph P. Ferrie has shown, in the late nineteenth century U.S. society was far more mobile than Great Britain’s—a child in the U.S. was much more likely to move into a higher-class profession than that of his father—and much more mobile than it became later. It was possible for Andrew Carnegie to start as a bobbin boy in a cotton factory at a dollar-twenty a week and end up one of the world’s richest men. This legacy left a deep imprint on American culture. The sociologist Werner Sombart noted in 1906 that the average American worker felt he had a good chance of rising out of his class. That feeling has persisted: Americans are less concerned than Europeans about inequality and more confident that society is meritocratic. The problem is that, over time, the American dream has become increasingly untethered from American reality.

    Both political parties say that they want to change this. And Chetty and his colleagues have shown in another study that some places in the U.S., like Salt Lake City and San Jose, have mobility rates as high as anywhere else in the developed world. There are also places in the U.S., like Mississippi, where mobility is lower than anywhere else in the developed world. So if you could figure out exactly what Salt Lake City is doing right, and apply that lesson elsewhere, you might be able to get people movin’ on up again.

    Increasing economic opportunity is a noble goal, and worth investing in. But we shouldn’t delude ourselves into thinking that more social mobility will cure what ails the U.S. economy. For a start, even societies that are held to have “high” mobility aren’t all that mobile. In San Jose, just thirteen per cent of people in the bottom quintile make it to the top. Sweden has one of the highest rates of social mobility in the world, but a 2012 study found that the top of the income spectrum is dominated by people whose parents were rich. A new book, “The Son Also Rises,” by the economic historian Gregory Clark, suggests that dramatic social mobility has always been the exception rather than the rule. Clark examines a host of societies over the past seven hundred years and finds that the makeup of a given country’s economic élite has remained surprisingly stable.
    Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

    Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

  • #2
    The middle class isn’t all that mobile, either: only twenty per cent of people born into the middle quintile ever make it into the top one.
    Isn't a quintile 20% of the population, by definition? It seems like 20% of any given subset making it into the top 20% would be as much as you could expect.
    Enjoy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
      The Mobility Myth





      Since at least the days of Horatio Alger, a cornerstone of American thinking has been the hope of social mobility—the idea that, as Lawrence Samuel put it in a history of the American dream, anyone can, “through dedication and with a can-do spirit, climb the ladder of success.” In recent years, though, plenty of Americans have come to believe that, as President Obama said in his State of the Union address, “upward mobility has stalled.” So it was a surprise recently when a team of economists from Harvard and Berkeley released a comprehensive study showing that mobility in the U.S. hasn’t fallen over the past twenty years at all. “Like many people, we thought mobility would have declined,” Raj Chetty, one of the researchers on the project, told me. “But what we found was that kids born in the early nineteen-nineties had the same chances of climbing up the income ladder as kids born in the seventies.” Even more striking, when the researchers looked at studies tracking economic mobility going back to the fifties, they concluded that it had remained relatively stable over the entire second half of the twentieth century.

      That sounds like good news, but there’s a catch: there wasn’t that much mobility to begin with. According to Chetty, “Social mobility is low and has been for at least thirty or forty years.” This is most obvious when you look at the prospects of the poor. Seventy per cent of people born into the bottom quintile of income distribution never make it into the middle class, and fewer than ten per cent get into the top quintile. Forty per cent are still poor as adults. What the political scientist Michael Harrington wrote back in 1962 is still true: most people who are poor are poor because “they made the mistake of being born to the wrong parents.” The middle class isn’t all that mobile, either: only twenty per cent of people born into the middle quintile ever make it into the top one. And although we think of U.S. society as archetypally open, mobility here is lower than in most European countries.

      This wasn’t always the case. As the economist Joseph P. Ferrie has shown, in the late nineteenth century U.S. society was far more mobile than Great Britain’s—a child in the U.S. was much more likely to move into a higher-class profession than that of his father—and much more mobile than it became later. It was possible for Andrew Carnegie to start as a bobbin boy in a cotton factory at a dollar-twenty a week and end up one of the world’s richest men. This legacy left a deep imprint on American culture. The sociologist Werner Sombart noted in 1906 that the average American worker felt he had a good chance of rising out of his class. That feeling has persisted: Americans are less concerned than Europeans about inequality and more confident that society is meritocratic. The problem is that, over time, the American dream has become increasingly untethered from American reality.

      Both political parties say that they want to change this. And Chetty and his colleagues have shown in another study that some places in the U.S., like Salt Lake City and San Jose, have mobility rates as high as anywhere else in the developed world. There are also places in the U.S., like Mississippi, where mobility is lower than anywhere else in the developed world. So if you could figure out exactly what Salt Lake City is doing right, and apply that lesson elsewhere, you might be able to get people movin’ on up again.

      Increasing economic opportunity is a noble goal, and worth investing in. But we shouldn’t delude ourselves into thinking that more social mobility will cure what ails the U.S. economy. For a start, even societies that are held to have “high” mobility aren’t all that mobile. In San Jose, just thirteen per cent of people in the bottom quintile make it to the top. Sweden has one of the highest rates of social mobility in the world, but a 2012 study found that the top of the income spectrum is dominated by people whose parents were rich. A new book, “The Son Also Rises,” by the economic historian Gregory Clark, suggests that dramatic social mobility has always been the exception rather than the rule. Clark examines a host of societies over the past seven hundred years and finds that the makeup of a given country’s economic élite has remained surprisingly stable.

      And those that do will be called "Uncle Toms" if they are black and not "Gangstas". If they are white you will just label their actions later in life as "generic rich guy douchebaggery" instead of referring to them as an example of how to actually climb a ladder with hard work instead of a social handout.
      If it pays, it stays

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
        The Mobility Myth





        Since at least the days of Horatio Alger, a cornerstone of American thinking has been the hope of social mobility—the idea that, as Lawrence Samuel put it in a history of the American dream, anyone can, “through dedication and with a can-do spirit, climb the ladder of success.” In recent years, though, plenty of Americans have come to believe that, as President Obama said in his State of the Union address, “upward mobility has stalled.” So it was a surprise recently when a team of economists from Harvard and Berkeley released a comprehensive study showing that mobility in the U.S. hasn’t fallen over the past twenty years at all. “Like many people, we thought mobility would have declined,” Raj Chetty, one of the researchers on the project, told me. “But what we found was that kids born in the early nineteen-nineties had the same chances of climbing up the income ladder as kids born in the seventies.” Even more striking, when the researchers looked at studies tracking economic mobility going back to the fifties, they concluded that it had remained relatively stable over the entire second half of the twentieth century.

        That sounds like good news, but there’s a catch: there wasn’t that much mobility to begin with. According to Chetty, “Social mobility is low and has been for at least thirty or forty years.” This is most obvious when you look at the prospects of the poor. Seventy per cent of people born into the bottom quintile of income distribution never make it into the middle class, and fewer than ten per cent get into the top quintile. Forty per cent are still poor as adults. What the political scientist Michael Harrington wrote back in 1962 is still true: most people who are poor are poor because “they made the mistake of being born to the wrong parents.” The middle class isn’t all that mobile, either: only twenty per cent of people born into the middle quintile ever make it into the top one. And although we think of U.S. society as archetypally open, mobility here is lower than in most European countries.

        This wasn’t always the case. As the economist Joseph P. Ferrie has shown, in the late nineteenth century U.S. society was far more mobile than Great Britain’s—a child in the U.S. was much more likely to move into a higher-class profession than that of his father—and much more mobile than it became later. It was possible for Andrew Carnegie to start as a bobbin boy in a cotton factory at a dollar-twenty a week and end up one of the world’s richest men. This legacy left a deep imprint on American culture. The sociologist Werner Sombart noted in 1906 that the average American worker felt he had a good chance of rising out of his class. That feeling has persisted: Americans are less concerned than Europeans about inequality and more confident that society is meritocratic. The problem is that, over time, the American dream has become increasingly untethered from American reality.

        Both political parties say that they want to change this. And Chetty and his colleagues have shown in another study that some places in the U.S., like Salt Lake City and San Jose, have mobility rates as high as anywhere else in the developed world. There are also places in the U.S., like Mississippi, where mobility is lower than anywhere else in the developed world. So if you could figure out exactly what Salt Lake City is doing right, and apply that lesson elsewhere, you might be able to get people movin’ on up again.

        Increasing economic opportunity is a noble goal, and worth investing in. But we shouldn’t delude ourselves into thinking that more social mobility will cure what ails the U.S. economy. For a start, even societies that are held to have “high” mobility aren’t all that mobile. In San Jose, just thirteen per cent of people in the bottom quintile make it to the top. Sweden has one of the highest rates of social mobility in the world, but a 2012 study found that the top of the income spectrum is dominated by people whose parents were rich. A new book, “The Son Also Rises,” by the economic historian Gregory Clark, suggests that dramatic social mobility has always been the exception rather than the rule. Clark examines a host of societies over the past seven hundred years and finds that the makeup of a given country’s economic élite has remained surprisingly stable.
        How about the absurd thought that Salt Lake City is Mormon heaven and they tend to be family oriented hard working people that set examples and provide goals for their children to aspire to. HINT:: It's got nothing to do with the climate or the water supply.
        If it pays, it stays

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
          And those that do will be called "Uncle Toms" if they are black and not "Gangstas". If they are white you will just label their actions later in life as "generic rich guy douchebaggery" instead of referring to them as an example of how to actually climb a ladder with hard work instead of a social handout.
          Obsess much?
          Enjoy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
            Obsess much?
            The fact there is a reason a child given guidance might outperform one not given guidance seems a foreign concept to you?
            If it pays, it stays

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
              The fact there is a reason a child given guidance might outperform one not given guidance seems a foreign concept to you?
              What good is success if someone can come along and call you a douchebag just for obstructing utility infrastructure that messes up your scenic view?
              Enjoy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                What good is success if someone can come along and call you a douchebag just for obstructing utility infrastructure that messes up your scenic view?
                I suppose if you personally are easily offend by someone of Bok's ilk calling you a douchebag (personally I prefer the term douchenozzle) then that could be a problem for you. For me it's a non-issue.

                Where it becomes a problem is on a broader stroke of the brush painting anyone of means, be it acquired or inherited, as "evil". This administration particularly has played that card to death. I could see why someone actually trying to find a way to climb the "ladder" mentioned in this thread would have less will to apply the effort necessary to become financially successful. It take hard work.
                If it pays, it stays

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                  I suppose if you personally are easily offend by someone of Bok's ilk calling you a douchebag (personally I prefer the term douchenozzle) then that could be a problem for you. For me it's a non-issue.

                  Where it becomes a problem is on a broader stroke of the brush painting anyone of means, be it acquired or inherited, as "evil". This administration particularly has played that card to death. I could see why someone actually trying to find a way to climb the "ladder" mentioned in this thread would have less will to apply the effort necessary to become financially successful. It take hard work.
                  Yes, I could tell by the way you responded to it in two different threads that you were completely unfazed. Like water off an aquaphobic duck's back.
                  Enjoy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not surprised by the conclusion. The devil, as they say, is in the details. What changed from the 50's to the 70's? We certainly have far more education in terms of those who now go to college. We have far more social programs than we did in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We have anti-discrimination laws that didn't exist then. So, can anyone tell me what has changed to stall the upward mobility?
                    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                    Robert Southwell, S.J.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
                      I'm not surprised by the conclusion. The devil, as they say, is in the details. What changed from the 50's to the 70's? We certainly have far more education in terms of those who now go to college. We have far more social programs than we did in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We have anti-discrimination laws that didn't exist then. So, can anyone tell me what has changed to stall the upward mobility?
                      Enjoy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post


                        Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

                        Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So ... good news, I guess.


                          Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

                          Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                            Yes, I could tell by the way you responded to it in two different threads that you were completely unfazed. Like water off an aquaphobic duck's back.
                            Perhaps I can help with your comprehension. I am personally unfazed. As a Nation we are not when attitudes such as Bok's are used for Political gain and fuel an underclass based on milking the dole.

                            Have a nice day.
                            If it pays, it stays

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A grateful nations salutes your selfless vigilance on behalf of those most capable of defending themselves. What sort of society would we be if we allowed litigious wealthy people to be subjected to mild ridicule by slightly less wealthy people?
                              Enjoy.

                              Comment

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