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Is Poverty Really The Result Of Bad Luck?

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  • Is Poverty Really The Result Of Bad Luck?

    Is Poverty Really The Result Of Bad Luck?


    On Thanksgiving eve, a Nicholas Kristof editorial instructed us on how to think about poverty in The New York Times. The main reason there is poverty, he tells us, is bad luck.

    We don’t choose our parents, after all. Or the household or neighborhood we are born into. Here are a few of his observations, with my emphasis added:

    “As Warren Buffett puts it, our life outcomes often depend on the ‘ovarian lottery.‘

    [T]he difference between being surrounded by a loving family or being homeless on the street is determined not just by our own level of virtue or self-discipline, but also by an inextricable mix of luck, biography, brain chemistry and genetics.

    [S]uccess in life is a reflection not only of enterprise and willpower, but also of random chance and early upbringing.”
    So what’s the solution to this problem? It is apparently very simple: All we need is love. (Kristof’s column is actually titled “Where Is the Love?”) And just in case you are not motivated in that way, Kristof draws on the work of Harvard professor John Rawls to give a rational philosophical reason to spend more on welfare programs.

    But before getting into that let’s pause for a moment. Is being born really a matter of luck? Doesn’t that take willful activity on the part of two parents? And is the inability of parents to support their children really a matter of luck? Or is it the result of bad habits and undisciplined behavior?

    Let’s grant that some people do have bad luck. But bad luck usually strikes randomly. Absent hurricanes and tornados, we don’t expect misfortune to befall entire neighborhoods ― to say nothing of entire cities.

    Kristof’s particular focus is on Food Stamps, given the debate in Congress over whether to cut spending on the program. So let’s concede that misfortune can cause some people to be hungry. But does that include the entire city of Dallas?

    Every single child attending public school in Dallas, Texas is getting a free lunch and a free breakfast. The reason: There are so few children who don’t qualify for free or subsidized food that it made administrative sense just to give free meals to everybody. And as I wrote previously, the trend around the country these days is to add a free supper as well. So the only time kids will need Food Stamps is on weekends.

    By the way, Dallas is not like Detroit. The economy is booming. As Texas Governor Rick Perry is fond of pointing out, Texas has created almost half the new jobs in the entire country over the past decade. So why, in the midst of all this growth and prosperity, is every school child in the city living in a home where the parents cannot afford to put food on the table?

    At some point you would think that even New York Times editorial writers would come to suspect that the welfare state is not relieving poverty. It is creating it.

    We have spent $15 trillion “fighting” poverty since 1965 and we are currently spending $ 1 trillion a year ― an amount equal to about $22,000 per poor person or $88,000 for a family of four. Yet our poverty rate today (16%) is higher than when we started (14%)! If there has been a War on Poverty, poverty won.

    Is it not obvious that we are subsidizing and enabling a way of life? To put it bluntly, we are paying young women to have children out of wedlock. We are paying them to be unemployed. And we are paying them to remain poor.

    Now let’s turn to the rational (non-emotional) argument for the welfare state. Kristof writes:

    “John Rawls, the brilliant 20th-century philosopher, argued for a society that seems fair if we consider it from behind a ‘veil of ignorance’ — meaning we don’t know whether we’ll be born to an investment banker or a teenage mom, in a leafy suburb or a gang-ridden inner city, healthy or disabled, smart or struggling, privileged or disadvantaged. That’s a shrewd analytical tool — and who among us would argue for food stamp cuts if we thought we might be among the hungry children?”
    Warren Buffett, by the way, makes a similar argument.

    And in both cases, it’s a surprise that these two very intelligent men cannot think of any other policy options. Remember, behind the Rawlsian veil of ignorance you don’t have to worry about what is politically practical. You can choose any public policy you like.

    So wouldn’t a rational person ask how public policy could be changed so that fewer children are born to alcoholic mothers who don’t read to them or encourage their mental development?

    It appears that government doing nothing would have vastly decreased the odds of being born as a child of such mothers. During the Reagan years the Council of Economic Advisors tracked the reduction in Post-World War II poverty as a function of economic growth. The conclusion: if there had never been a War on Poverty, the poverty rate by the mid-80s would have been significantly below where it actually was.

    Bringing those estimates forward, if there had never been a welfare state, economic growth alone should have virtually eliminated poverty by now.

    Today, Buffet and Kristof standing behind a veil of ignorance ― about to be born into the United States ― would have a one in two chance of experiencing a birth paid for by Medicaid. Absent the welfare state, their odds of needing charity to be born would have been on the order of two or three out of 100.

    Of course now that we have created the welfare state, and the culture that depends on it, it’s virtually impossible to end it and ask everyone on the dole to go cold turkey. But we can do something else. We can privatize it.

    More on that in a future editorial.


    Forbes
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

  • #2
    I certainly do not deny that bad luck can be and frequently is a reason for someone's transitory poverty. People have bad things happen to them. As the phrase goes, "shit happens." As has been noted many, many times in the past, most people, even the relatively wealthy, go through some period in their life when they're poor. Maybe not homeless and destitute, but definitely in the lower quadrant or so of the economic scale. A large majority of people, even those who have been poor, even those who have been born into abject poverty, manage to make it into at least a solidly middle-class income and lifestyle. A significant number, not a majority but a significant number, of people who were born very poor manage to make it into very upper-class lives in their adulthood, usually their relatively young adulthood.

    In short, this claptrap that is so often spewed about poor people never having a chance is just complete bullshit. It can be done, it is done, on a regular basis. Lots and lots of people do manage to get themselves into a good life from the deepest depths of actual oppression. Herman Cain grew up in the segregated South, where doors literally were not open to him, the son of a maid and a chauffeur. Out of anyone who is alive today and was born in the United States, there are relatively few who have faced greater economic adversity. And yet he's a multimillionaire, having had a string of different careers at which he has excelled. Ben Carson wasn't born into the segregated South, but something almost as bad: Detroit of the '50s, with a single mother with a third-grade education who worked maid jobs to put food on the table. And yet he went on to become one of, if not the top neurosurgeon in the United States, now wealthy enough to spend the rest of his life giving away his money to worthy causes. The same story repeats itself over and over throughout the country. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, there are countless success stories all across the land. So clearly it's not impossible to improve one's lot. Is it easy? Is it fun? No. HELL no. But this perpetual claim that it's not possible is just BS.


    Should we, as a society, help people who are in poverty? Absolutely. We are a compassionate society, and we should be. What we do, though, is generally a lot less "helping" and a lot more "enabling." The rest of us recognize that there is a component of "bad luck" involved in a lot of poverty. Now it's time for the other side to step up and recognize that there is at least as much, if not a whole lot more, of "really shitty decisions" involved in poverty. This is why I say that we need to radically reform poverty assistance in this country. We need to make it crystal clear to those who will take government assistance will absolutely be ensured against starving, freezing, or living without a roof over their heads, but that they will get the absolute minimum, barest of a subsistence life. Being poor is supposed to suck, and it should. I say abolish all existing welfare programs and organize it all under a bureau-level office to handle everything social-welfare related: an office of housing, an office of food assistance, an office of basic life assistance (clothing, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, etc.), and an office of joblessness assistance. EVERYTHING goes through vouchers and closely-regulated debit cards. No more cash assistance whatsoever. If you're on government assistance, you'll get food, but only nutritious basic staples. You'll get housing, but only the most basic of housing that has ready access to public transit. You'll get heat, electricity, toilet paper, diapers as needed, soap, shampoo, stuff to clean your dishes, your toilet, etc., but it will all be very carefully rationed, and you will only be able to get authorized stuff, usually generic. You will be supplied with basic furniture, basic pots and pans, basic dishes, and you will cook your own food. You will not buy booze, cigarettes, lottery tickets, sodas, cupcakes, Ho-Hos, Doritos, or drugs, and you'll be tested regularly for at least the tobacco and drugs. If you're able-bodied and of sound mind, you will be required to go to job training for skills and you will be required to search for a job in earnest. Your kids, if you have them, will attend school and they will do their homework. If you can't get your kids to go to school and make something of themselves, then we'll take them away and put them with someone who will. You will not have cable, satellite, or indeed even a television. You will not have an iPhone, or in fact a cell phone at all. You will not have a boomin' sound system, spinner rims, or in fact a car at all. In short, you will have a basic subsistence lifestyle slightly above that of prisoners in a penitentiary. You will not spend your days on the sofa or on the stoop sucking on 40s and Newports. You will be made to put forth the effort to improve yourself. Don't like living like that? Then it's time to use some of that stuff that we as a society are offering you: get some skills and get a damn job.
    It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
    In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
    Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
    Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

    Comment


    • #3
      One thing that always seems to drop out in these conversations is success. We spend a lot of time looking at failure and what causes it, how it persists, the multiple causes of failure but we spend almost time at all looking at people who are born into "bad luck" but who manage to get out of it.

      I don't mean some kid of an alcoholic, sexually obsessed welfare queen who somehow creates a multimillion dollar start-up. I mean the kid of an alcoholic, sexually obsessed welfare queen who stays in school, avoids pregnancy, learns a trade, marries before having kids, stays married, and enters the middle class.

      We seldom talk about how those kids are different and why. And they do exist in their many teeming thousands and millions. Just as thousands and millions are born into "good luck" but piss it away.
      "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

      Comment


      • #4
        Poverty is often the result of bad luck, and people who consistently do things that make their peer groups poor consistently end up poor themselves.

        The same happens for affluent people.
        "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
        -John Locke

        "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
        -Newman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
          One thing that always seems to drop out in these conversations is success. We spend a lot of time looking at failure and what causes it, how it persists, the multiple causes of failure but we spend almost time at all looking at people who are born into "bad luck" but who manage to get out of it.

          I don't mean some kid of an alcoholic, sexually obsessed welfare queen who somehow creates a multimillion dollar start-up. I mean the kid of an alcoholic, sexually obsessed welfare queen who stays in school, avoids pregnancy, learns a trade, marries before having kids, stays married, and enters the middle class.

          We seldom talk about how those kids are different and why. And they do exist in their many teeming thousands and millions. Just as thousands and millions are born into "good luck" but piss it away.
          I like to think of myself as a keen observer. I see what you are talking about just about every day. I live six blocks from a high school with a vocational health sciences wing. There are girls who hang out on the north side of the school, doing band and cheerleading, and girls on the south side of the school learning how to be nurses, and then there are the ones in the middle who seem intent on perpetuating their condition and station.

          I can't figure out what determines the difference in where you find these girls landing. I suspect that the number and sex of their siblings might be interesting to know. Do girls with older brothers end up worse off than girls who have older sisters? Is being the oldest a handicap or an advantage? Yes, choices are important, but I think we could learn a lot about how those choices are made if we were allowed to study students at random without the editing of permission slips and that sort of thing. However, you know as well as I do that if the schools start bringing the kids in for personal interviews with functional questions, the people who to this day swear that kids are "taught fisting" will claim that the schools are interfering with parenting, brainwashing, and teaching sex.
          The year's at the spring
          And day's at the morn;
          Morning's at seven;
          The hill-side's dew-pearled;
          The lark's on the wing;
          The snail's on the thorn:
          God's in his heaven—
          All's right with the world!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Novaheart View Post
            I like to think of myself as a keen observer. I see what you are talking about just about every day. I live six blocks from a high school with a vocational health sciences wing. There are girls who hang out on the north side of the school, doing band and cheerleading, and girls on the south side of the school learning how to be nurses, and then there are the ones in the middle who seem intent on perpetuating their condition and station.

            I can't figure out what determines the difference in where you find these girls landing. I suspect that the number and sex of their siblings might be interesting to know. Do girls with older brothers end up worse off than girls who have older sisters? Is being the oldest a handicap or an advantage? Yes, choices are important, but I think we could learn a lot about how those choices are made if we were allowed to study students at random without the editing of permission slips and that sort of thing. However, you know as well as I do that if the schools start bringing the kids in for personal interviews with functional questions, the people who to this day swear that kids are "taught fisting" will claim that the schools are interfering with parenting, brainwashing, and teaching sex.
            While I'm sure the "fisting" thing is apocryphal or extremely rare, the schools still have quite a history of interfering with parenting and these "studies" more often than not become push-polling for more government funded social services.
            "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
            -John Locke

            "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
            -Newman

            Comment


            • #7
              But before getting into that let’s pause for a moment. Is being born really a matter of luck? Doesn’t that take willful activity on the part of two parents? And is the inability of parents to support their children really a matter of luck? Or is it the result of bad habits and undisciplined behavior?


              The author of the piece really missed that one.

              Yes. It is a matter of chance. Whether or not parents make a conscious decision to fuck, isn't really germane.
              Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

              Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                But before getting into that let’s pause for a moment. Is being born really a matter of luck? Doesn’t that take willful activity on the part of two parents? And is the inability of parents to support their children really a matter of luck? Or is it the result of bad habits and undisciplined behavior?


                The author of the piece really missed that one.

                Yes. It is a matter of chance. Whether or not parents make a conscious decision to fuck, isn't really germane.
                Your one child is a matter of chance?
                "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                -John Locke

                "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                -Newman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by scott View Post
                  Your one child is a matter of chance?
                  From her perspective, yes. And that is the one that matters in the conversation. The choices made by her parents may set the circumstances of her life but she was not involved in that choice so for her, it is a matter of chance. Or fortune, if you prefer.

                  Or are you talking about something spiritual having to do with the Guf?
                  Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

                  Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                    From her perspective, yes. And that is the one that matters in the conversation. The choices made by her parents may set the circumstances of her life but she was not involved in that choice so for her, it is a matter of chance. Or fortune, if you prefer.

                    Or are you talking about something spiritual having to do with the Guf?
                    That's a good point, the children that are affluent generally chose their parents and grandparents well. However, those who choose to continue to do the things that made their parents poor cannot blame society for their ills. For the first half of my childhood, we were poor - eligible for food stamps, free school lunches and rent assistance poor (much harder to get in the 70s than today). Their children learned from their life lessons and errors.

                    How much of that is luck, that all 6 of us kids went to college and all of us are affluent except the one who deliberately chose a low-paying career?
                    "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                    -John Locke

                    "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                    -Newman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by scott View Post
                      That's a good point, the children that are affluent generally chose their parents and grandparents well. However, those who choose to continue to do the things that made their parents poor cannot blame society for their ills. For the first half of my childhood, we were poor - eligible for food stamps, free school lunches and rent assistance poor (much harder to get in the 70s than today). Their children learned from their life lessons and errors.

                      How much of that is luck, that all 6 of us kids went to college and all of us are affluent except the one who deliberately chose a low-paying career?
                      I guess when my dad turned down the chance to buy a pizza place (and a 40% stake in the business so the owner could open a second location) from a guy he played baseball with in high school, I should be cursing my dad because of instead of being on the internet in a house without power for the last 5 days, I could be rich and somewhere else where it is warm and ice free.

                      Just my bad luck that I was born to my parents instead of the Illitch's, owners of Little Caesar's Pizza, the Detroit Tigers, the Detroit Red Wings and the guy my dad played baseball with.
                      We are so fucked.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gary m View Post
                        I guess when my dad turned down the chance to buy a pizza place (and a 40% stake in the business so the owner could open a second location) from a guy he played baseball with in high school, I should be cursing my dad because of instead of being on the internet in a house without power for the last 5 days, I could be rich and somewhere else where it is warm and ice free.

                        Just my bad luck that I was born to my parents instead of the Illitch's, owners of Little Caesar's Pizza, the Detroit Tigers, the Detroit Red Wings and the guy my dad played baseball with.
                        Damn. And I'm ticked my parents didn't buy the lot next door to them 40 years ago. Dude...your parents sucked at investments!
                        Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                        Robert Southwell, S.J.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
                          Damn. And I'm ticked my parents didn't buy the lot next door to them 40 years ago. Dude...your parents sucked at investments!
                          Well, with 4 young boys, a 5 grand investment and quitting a stable job to run a pizza place (still a unproven venture in Metro Detroit in the early 60's) was a bit more of a risk than he was willing or could afford to take.

                          Its all about choices. I took a modest inheritance when my mom died and used it to finance my own company where I contract writing automation and robotic logic for the auto companies and it gives me a upper 15% living. My one brother bought a conversion van (later repo'd) and still lives in Arkansas plucking chickens for Tyson for about 10 an hour. Another bought a couple snowmobiles and a down payment on a house he couldn't afford that he lost a couple years ago.
                          The last bought some land in western Michigan and built a house that he, his wife and their 3 adult children (one married with a child) share.
                          We are so fucked.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scott View Post
                            That's a good point, the children that are affluent generally chose their parents and grandparents well. However, those who choose to continue to do the things that made their parents poor cannot blame society for their ills. For the first half of my childhood, we were poor - eligible for food stamps, free school lunches and rent assistance poor (much harder to get in the 70s than today). Their children learned from their life lessons and errors.

                            How much of that is luck, that all 6 of us kids went to college and all of us are affluent except the one who deliberately chose a low-paying career?
                            Quite a bit. From where those individuals were born to the genetic talents they received.
                            Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

                            Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gary m View Post
                              Well, with 4 young boys, a 5 grand investment and quitting a stable job to run a pizza place (still a unproven venture in Metro Detroit in the early 60's) was a bit more of a risk than he was willing or could afford to take.

                              Its all about choices. I took a modest inheritance when my mom died and used it to finance my own company where I contract writing automation and robotic logic for the auto companies and it gives me a upper 15% living. My one brother bought a conversion van (later repo'd) and still lives in Arkansas plucking chickens for Tyson for about 10 an hour. Another bought a couple snowmobiles and a down payment on a house he couldn't afford that he lost a couple years ago.
                              The last bought some land in western Michigan and built a house that he, his wife and their 3 adult children (one married with a child) share.
                              I'm just joshing you. Risk is always difficult to take, and investments in new businesses are particularly tough to swallow, especially given the situation with kids.

                              Hindsight and all that. My joke had more to do with my parents' lost opportunity wasn't nearly as potentially advantageous as yours' was.

                              I'm still kicking myself for not spending the 5k on a signed Wyeth 6 months before his death.
                              Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                              Robert Southwell, S.J.

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