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Why Couldn't Minivan Mom Be Stopped? No Law Against 'Crazy,' Experts Say

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  • Why Couldn't Minivan Mom Be Stopped? No Law Against 'Crazy,' Experts Say

    Why Couldn't Minivan Mom Be Stopped? No Law Against 'Crazy,' Experts Say
    BY JONEL ALECCIA


    It may be easy to to ask after the fact why no one intervened before a pregnant South Carolina woman drove a minivan carrying her three young children into the Florida surf on Tuesday.

    But mental health experts say the answer is far from simple, thanks to a patchwork of state laws regarding involuntary commitment, uneven enforcement, subjective judgment — and the need to protect the civil rights of everyone, even the mentally ill.

    “There is no law in this country against being crazy,” said Laurence Miller, a clinical and forensic psychologist in Boca Raton, Fla. “If somebody is delusional and even flagrantly psychotic, unless they’re an imminent danger to themselves or others, there’s nothing anybody can do.”

    Ebony Wilkerson, 32, of Cross, S.C., was hospitalized for a mental health evaluation Thursday, two days after she nearly submerged herself and her three children, ages 3, 9 and 10, in the ocean at Daytona Beach.

    Volusia County Sheriff’s Office officials told the Associated Press that Wilkerson was being evaluated under Florida’s Baker Act, a law that allows authorities to involuntarily take people into custody if they seem to be a threat to themselves and others.

    But she didn’t meet the standards of that law on Tuesday, two hours before she headed to the ocean, when police officers stopped Wilkerson after her sister had called to say the woman was talking about demons. Officers had determined that Wilkerson was lucid –- and they let her go.

    “There is no law in this country against being crazy. If somebody is delusional and even flagrantly psychotic, unless they’re an imminent danger to themselves or others, there’s nothing anybody can do.”

    That points to the difficulty of predicting when mentally ill — even delusional — people pose a danger because there’s no shared treatment standard across the U.S., said Doris Fuller, the executive director of Treatment Advocacy Center, a nonprofit agency focused on the issue.

    Laws for involuntary commitment vary widely from state to state and even when there are strong laws, some jurisdictions simply don’t follow them, Fuller said. And if there are strong laws and a willingness to enforce them, there may be a lack of psychiatric beds for evaluation and treatment.

    Often, it takes a crime or a tragedy — or both — to attract necessary resources to the mentally ill.

    “It’s a terrible, terrible thing that people have to get involved in the criminal justice system before they get what they needed all along,” Fuller said.

    Miller, the psychologist, cautioned against blaming police for not predicting that Wilkerson would turn dangerous.

    “Even a trained mental health professional would have a hard time,” he said. “I have no way of knowing with a crystal ball an hour later that the mother is going to drive into the ocean.”
    I wondered about this story. Good thing she didn't find a pier.

    NBC
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

  • #2
    I was more surprised by her skin color than anything.
    “Any sufficiently advanced capitalism is indistinguishable from rent seeking.” ~ =j

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tom Servo View Post
      I was more surprised by her skin color than anything.
      Why? Have you met a lot of white or Asian women named Ebony?
      "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tom Servo View Post
        I was more surprised by her skin color than anything.
        Yeah. Only recently has the black community even BEGUN to address mental illness...I don't know what was done before hand... I know the perception (that I gleaned from others) was that being crazy only happened to white people. What they did when someone actually turned up bipolar or schizophrenic with delusions is something I was never clear on.

        ~Dallas

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
          Why? Have you met a lot of white or Asian women named Ebony?
          I was surprised as well. I hadn't really heard her name, nor was the video clear. Once I heard the name I thought she may be black, but it's not often that you hear about non-white women having psychotic breaks like this and attempting to kill the children. it may happen, but I just haven't heard about many of them.
          Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
          Robert Southwell, S.J.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dallas View Post
            Yeah. Only recently has the black community even BEGUN to address mental illness...I don't know what was done before hand... I know the perception (that I gleaned from others) was that being crazy only happened to white people. What they did when someone actually turned up bipolar or schizophrenic with delusions is something I was never clear on.

            ~Dallas
            The black community appears to have a higher tolerance for personality disorder than white people do.

            White people be like :

            "Odessa is crazy, why do you let that woman in your house?"

            "Yeah, but she makes some good potato salad. Are you coming by on Sunday?"

            "Not if Odessa's going to be there."

            Black people be like:

            "I think Odessa crazy as a box of birds."

            "Yeah, but she make some good potato salad. You coming over on Sunday?"

            "You know it!"
            The year's at the spring
            And day's at the morn;
            Morning's at seven;
            The hill-side's dew-pearled;
            The lark's on the wing;
            The snail's on the thorn:
            God's in his heaven—
            All's right with the world!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
              I wondered about this story. Good thing she didn't find a pier.

              NBC
              It's complicated. I'd like to see more involuntary commitment because some of these people end up homeless due to their mental problems. Some people can't afford it. Some people are too "crazy" to realize they need help.

              Problem is some people think it has the potential of being abused and we'd be committing people for smaller mental problems.

              Comment


              • #8
                Why do some people think that mental illness discriminates on race?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lanie View Post
                  Why do some people think that mental illness discriminates on race?
                  It's just what people observe. The most visible cases of crazy are younger-to-middle-aged white people, usually white males. It was a white guy who shot up a movie theater in Colorado. It was a white guy who shot up a shopping center parking lot in Tucson. It was a couple of white kids who shot up Columbine High School, and indeed almost every other "school shooting" has been by a white male.

                  The only really notable case I can immediately think of where it was a Black guy who went high-visibility crazy was that guy in southern California last year who used to be a cop and then really went off the deep end.
                  It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                  In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                  Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                  Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Somewhat related: a long, in-depth interview with Peter Lanza, Adam Lanza's father.

                    A bit painful to read, because you're basically watching Adam Lanza go insane, through a helpless father's eyes.

                    One thing that becomes abundantly clear, though, is that there is no place to "fix blame" for Newtown.
                    It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                    In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                    Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                    Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Novaheart View Post
                      The black community appears to have a higher tolerance for personality disorder than white people do.

                      White people be like :

                      "Odessa is crazy, why do you let that woman in your house?"

                      "Yeah, but she makes some good potato salad. Are you coming by on Sunday?"

                      "Not if Odessa's going to be there."

                      Black people be like:

                      "I think Odessa crazy as a box of birds."

                      "Yeah, but she make some good potato salad. You coming over on Sunday?"

                      "You know it!"
                      In some ways, yeah. Who else is going to make potato salad that good?

                      ~Dallas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lanie View Post
                        It's complicated. I'd like to see more involuntary commitment because some of these people end up homeless due to their mental problems. Some people can't afford it. Some people are too "crazy" to realize they need help.

                        Problem is some people think it has the potential of being abused and we'd be committing people for smaller mental problems.
                        We would be.
                        Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                        Robert Southwell, S.J.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Adam View Post
                          Somewhat related: a long, in-depth interview with Peter Lanza, Adam Lanza's father.

                          A bit painful to read, because you're basically watching Adam Lanza go insane, through a helpless father's eyes.

                          One thing that becomes abundantly clear, though, is that there is no place to "fix blame" for Newtown.
                          Tough read. I skipped a lot. But I have nothing but terrible sorrow for his parents. I have a client whose son is very much like Adam. One of the saddest cases of my life. There has not been that kind of violence, but I fear that there may be. It haunts me at times.
                          Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                          Robert Southwell, S.J.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adam View Post
                            It's just what people observe. The most visible cases of crazy are younger-to-middle-aged white people, usually white males. It was a white guy who shot up a movie theater in Colorado. It was a white guy who shot up a shopping center parking lot in Tucson. It was a couple of white kids who shot up Columbine High School, and indeed almost every other "school shooting" has been by a white male.

                            The only really notable case I can immediately think of where it was a Black guy who went high-visibility crazy was that guy in southern California last year who used to be a cop and then really went off the deep end.
                            Some people are delusional (and I think this woman is). Some people are evil. Some people are evil and will use their crazy as an excuse IMO. The guy who shot up the movie theater was in medical school. The kids who shot up Columbine were depressed, right? I'm sorry, but not an excuse. I think this woman might have a real excuse. Michael Hayes might have had a real excuse if he truly thought he was shooting at monsters or demons or whatever. Some of these other disorders? No. Lots of people have them and don't shoot places up. I'm still for pushing for a lot more access to mental health services and I still believe that's a big part of the problem. I'm just wondering if some white people don't want attention.

                            Or as commedian Mencia said years ago.....

                            "You white people need to learn how to just kill a few people and let it go."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lanie View Post
                              Some people are delusional (and I think this woman is). Some people are evil. Some people are evil and will use their crazy as an excuse IMO. The guy who shot up the movie theater was in medical school. The kids who shot up Columbine were depressed, right? I'm sorry, but not an excuse. I think this woman might have a real excuse. Michael Hayes might have had a real excuse if he truly thought he was shooting at monsters or demons or whatever. Some of these other disorders? No. Lots of people have them and don't shoot places up. I'm still for pushing for a lot more access to mental health services and I still believe that's a big part of the problem. I'm just wondering if some white people don't want attention.

                              Or as commedian Mencia said years ago.....

                              "You white people need to learn how to just kill a few people and let it go."
                              You should read the piece I linked on Adam Lanza. Access to mental health services is not the problem. Both of Lanza's parents pulled their hair out going to all sorts of different head shrinks. Adam Lanza had all the access to mental health services in the world. The kook who shot up the movie theater was actively seeing a shrink right up until almost the day he started shooting. Jared Loughner was getting mental health services through Pima Community College until a month or so before he went berserk. The kids at Columbine were seeing a shrink regularly. Someone who wants to can easily get access to mental health services. All these crazies who have shot up schools had plenty of access to mental health services.

                              The access to mental health services is there. The problem is that you can't really force people who are otherwise non-violent to accept them. You can't force the homeless schizophrenic who is shouting at a fire hydrant to accept mental health help unless you can put him into an institution and monitor him, and you can't do that until he presents a threat to himself or others, as deemed by the courts.
                              It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                              In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                              Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                              Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                              Comment

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