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  • People unclear on the concept



    Death penalty opponents and lawyers for condemned prisoners said the botched execution of a convicted in killer in Oklahoma could have a far-reaching impact on death penalty states, potentially putting the brakes at least temporarily on further use of lethal injections.

    Clayton Lockett, 38, struggled violently, groaned and writhed after lethal drugs were administered by Oklahoma officials Tuesday night, according to eyewitness accounts. State Corrections Director Robert Patton halted the Lockett's execution, citing vein failure that may have prevented the deadly chemicals from reaching Lockett. He eventually died of a heart attack.

    [....]

    Richard Dieter, executive director of non-profit Death Penalty Information Center, a clearinghouse for information and an opponent of executions, said Lockett's manner of death would add momentum to efforts to halt lethal injection until the process is better understood and there is more transparency to what states are trying to do.

    "Somebody died because of the state's incompetency," Dieter says, adding that Louisiana, Kentucky and Ohio are considering similar protocols. "I think they're going to have second thoughts and those executions will be delayed."


    Newsflash, Rick: somebody died because he went on a crime spree of rape, pillage, plunder, and exceptionally heinous murder.


    I don't even accept the claim that this was a "botched execution."
    Hal: Okay, boys, okay. Now, what in the hell happened?
    Paul: An execution. A successful one.
    Hal: How in the name of Christ can you call that a success?
    Paul: Eduard Delacroix is dead. Isn't he?

    The guy was set to be executed. Now he's dead. There's no "botched" to this at all. This was a success. Justice has been delivered.


    The usual suspects are have almost wrung their hands right off of their wrists over this. It's "torture" and horrible and all of that. Well, sorry folks, but your hand-wringing is pointless, stupid, and frankly ignorant. We should all be so lucky as to die in 20 minutes with very little struggle or distress. Most of us won't. Most of us will suffer a lot of pain and often a lot of terror over several days or weeks before we finally expire. Very few people dying of "natural causes" doesn't suffer considerable pain for at least several hours.

    So for all you people who are out there worried about how this wasn't a painless death for this evil bastard: stuff it where the sun don't shine.

    Of course, the anti-death penalty activists will never even acknowledge that they are the cause of this shithead's "suffering."



    The bad news is that the media is titillating over this so much they all collectively peed their pants with glee last night reporting this, often with just flat-out made-up bullshit, like claiming that Lockett sat up and said "something's wrong." They conveniently forgot the fact that he was strapped to a gurney and therefor couldn't have sat up, much less the ludicrous notion that he would have said "something's wrong." So, there will be a tremendous amount of urban legend that the media will squee about in their attempt to show how horrible the evil red states are, and clearly there are enough stupid people out there to be swayed by the media's bullshit; Obama got elected twice, after all.



    It's long past time to either go back to firing squads, or else simply create a chair that will hold the condemned's head in place and shoot a bolt through his brain, cattle-style. Destroy the parietal lobe and the medulla oblongata in a tiny fraction of a second, and there is no question that someone will die pretty much instantly and won't suffer any pain. A lot cheaper than dreaming up lethal drug cocktails, too.
    It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
    In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
    Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
    Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

  • #2
    Let the State do what States have done better than any other entity on Earth: Kill people.
    Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

    Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
      Let the State do what States have done better than any other entity on Earth: Kill people.
      Unavailable for comment:

      It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
      In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
      Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
      Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

      Comment


      • #4
        I have seen a lot of dogs put down over the years and while a couple have coughed or sighed for a second (literally), I've never seen any of them struggle after the injection. I've also been there when this procedure is used on horses and it's the same thing.

        You'd think they could figure this out without using such complicated procedures.
        "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
          I have seen a lot of dogs put down over the years and while a couple have coughed or sighed for a second (literally), I've never seen any of them struggle after the injection. I've also been there when this procedure is used on horses and it's the same thing.

          You'd think they could figure this out without using such complicated procedures.
          I agree. I wonder how quickly the family lawyers up and tries to file a lawsuit using the Eighth Amendment? How much more will this cost the taxpayers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
            I have seen a lot of dogs put down over the years and while a couple have coughed or sighed for a second (literally), I've never seen any of them struggle after the injection. I've also been there when this procedure is used on horses and it's the same thing.

            You'd think they could figure this out without using such complicated procedures.
            The problem is that the manufacturers of those drugs refuse to sell them to any state authority if that state has the death penalty. Hence why the very same people who decry the death penalty as "cruel" are the ones who created this situation in the first place. And why I suggested an alternate method that keeps people like that from being able to interfere with justice being carried out.



            Someone else had another good idea: "Just snip their spines with scissors; it worked for Kermit Gosnell."

            Heh.
            It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
            In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
            Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
            Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Adam View Post
              The problem is that the manufacturers of those drugs refuse to sell them to any state authority if that state has the death penalty. Hence why the very same people who decry the death penalty as "cruel" are the ones who created this situation in the first place. And why I suggested an alternate method that keeps people like that from being able to interfere with justice being carried out.
              That is ironic. We're okay with killing perfectly innocent children but somehow not okay with killing convicted murders but totally okay with torturing both.

              Makes sense.
              "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
                That is ironic. We're okay with killing perfectly innocent children but somehow not okay with killing convicted murders but totally okay with torturing both.

                Makes sense.
                But that's just it: we're not OK with torturing people who tortured others. What this guy went through last night was about ten minutes of "struggle." He writhed around a little bit. He never said he was in pain or anything remotely like that. His death was far, FAR more humane than most of us will have when our number is up. We would all wish for just ten minutes of writhing when we die, because with little exception, we're going to have hours, days, weeks of pain before we slip the coil. And that's not even beginning to touch on how the poor scared teenager that he murdered died: shot, in excruciating pain, screaming for mercy, doubtless terrified, as they buried her alive.

                So no, what he went through was not even remotely close to torture.
                It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Adam View Post
                  But that's just it: we're not OK with torturing people who tortured others. What this guy went through last night was about ten minutes of "struggle." He writhed around a little bit. He never said he was in pain or anything remotely like that. His death was far, FAR more humane than most of us will have when our number is up. We would all wish for just ten minutes of writhing when we die, because with little exception, we're going to have hours, days, weeks of pain before we slip the coil. And that's not even beginning to touch on how the poor scared teenager that he murdered died: shot, in excruciating pain, screaming for mercy, doubtless terrified, as they buried her alive.

                  So no, what he went through was not even remotely close to torture.
                  Big Media breaking news said he fought for his life for almost 45 minutes!!!!!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Adam View Post
                    The problem is that the manufacturers of those drugs refuse to sell them to any state authority if that state has the death penalty. Hence why the very same people who decry the death penalty as "cruel" are the ones who created this situation in the first place. And why I suggested an alternate method that keeps people like that from being able to interfere with justice being carried out.



                    Someone else had another good idea: "Just snip their spines with scissors; it worked for Kermit Gosnell."

                    Heh.
                    Actually that botched attempt was not because of the drugs chosen. It was pilot error in the placement of the IV. It infiltrated so the drugs did not go where they should have.
                    If it pays, it stays

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                      Actually that botched attempt was not because of the drugs chosen. It was pilot error in the placement of the IV. It infiltrated so the drugs did not go where they should have.
                      I saw reports of a ruptured vein. I wonder if the machine pumped the stuff in too fast. Maybe the new drug is a little different in viscosity from the old drug.
                      Enjoy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                        Actually that botched attempt was not because of the drugs chosen. It was pilot error in the placement of the IV. It infiltrated so the drugs did not go where they should have.
                        Well, who did the lines? Wouldn't you get like your very best phlebotomist to do this instead of a doctor who may do this once week? I never placed IV lines totally but I sure stuck a lot of compromised people when I did my little stint in clinical chemistry. In 3 months I got good enough that docs would have me do some of the line prep since I mostly drew blood from geriatric patients and alkies. If you can get those people situated with no pain and no infiltration, you can do anybody over the age of 10.

                        As an apheresis donor, I still sometimes want to just do it myself. You either have the touch or you don't. I hate getting a big old goose egg and I'm not even scheduled to die.
                        "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Most doctors can't do that work anyway. It's the nurses and the techs that can get it into the vein. I've never seen a doctor even try to do it, and I've watched my mom get stuck hundreds of times (she's a hard stick, so we know who the really good nurses are).

                          We may scoff at 10 minutes of struggle, but I imagine those 10 minutes may be brutal.

                          I still don't know how I feel about the death penalty, but I do know that the state should not be in the business of killing with the intent to torture while doing it. If it's to be an execution, it should be a clean one. Figure it out, get it done, and that's it. Thousands of people manage to kill themselves or others in this country every year without the kind of resources the state has to make it a clean kill. Maybe they should be hired as consultants. Hell, let Michael Jackson's doctor have a whack at it.
                          Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                          Robert Southwell, S.J.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I feel better about the death penalty now. We still have a bunch of people in the pipeline who may be wrongly convicted but those convicted today - not so much. We can put you there with DNA, CCTV, better crime scene technology, etc.
                            "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
                              I feel better about the death penalty now. We still have a bunch of people in the pipeline who may be wrongly convicted but those convicted today - not so much. We can put you there with DNA, CCTV, better crime scene technology, etc.
                              I agree that the chance of wrongful conviction is slimmer. I'm still not completely comfortable, however, morally, with it. I'm not uncomfortable enough to protest it, but I'm just not certain the state should be in the business of killing. I've flipped on the issue, quite frankly. I used to be very anti. Then I was on the fence leaning pro. I'm probably still on the fence leaning pro, but it's just not fully formulated for me yet.

                              A friend of mine has to write letters to a parole board every 3 months to keep her sister's killer in prison. That just sucks. Even though he didn't get life, it would be so much easier if, at the very least, he didn't get the chance to get out every 3 months. It wrecks havoc on her emotions constantly. For her sake it would be better had he been put to death.
                              Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                              Robert Southwell, S.J.

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