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  • Forget the huddled masses

    Forget the huddled masses

    Treating immigrants as a charity case is not working: time to change course




    IMMIGRATION reform in America is stuck. Blame Emma Lazarus, who wrote the 1883 sonnet anointing the Statue of Liberty a “Mother of Exiles”, urging the old world to send “your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”.

    Lazarus is only accidentally to blame for the partisan deadlock that grips immigration reform, raising the ghastly prospect that a broken system will remain unfixed until after the 2014 mid-term elections, and possibly the presidential contest of 2016. Lazarus wrote her poem to help raise funds for the statue’s pedestal. She ignored the stated purpose of the colossal sculpture (a French-built homage to America’s republican government) focusing instead on her concern over Jewish pogroms in Russia. Her words were almost forgotten, surviving on a plaque on an inner wall of the pedestal. They achieved fame decades after her death, as the statue became associated with the immigration station on Ellis Island and Nazi persecution made refugee policies urgently political. In 1945 the poem, set in bronze, was moved to the statue’s main entrance. Soon afterwards it was put to music by Irving Berlin.

    To this day Lazarus’s sentiments have an outsize impact, argues Peter Skerry of Boston College, a political scientist specialising in immigration. In 14 lines, she managed to cast America—in reality a raucous young nation built by the brains and brawn of newcomers—as a sort of Lady Bountiful, selflessly extending asylum to the poorest and most wretched. Americans embraced that image of immigration as a form of charity. Yet most migrants are not tired or exceptionally poor. Undocumented workers are mostly young, have the means to pay people-smugglers or buy an air ticket, and come to work for higher pay than they could earn at home. Most are not refugees; many would be horrified to be called the “wretched refuse” of anyone’s teeming shore.

    Yet modern campaigners for comprehensive immigration reform tend to play on heartstrings. Jump onto the website of Organising For Action (OFA), a never-demobilised arm of the 2012 Obama campaign, and a whole section is devoted to immigration—specifically calling on the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to take up a bipartisan immigration plan passed in the summer by the Senate. A quote from Lazarus has pride of place on the OFA site, alongside life stories of migrants, showing the human costs of inaction.

    That compassion-driven approach has new allies from within the conservative movement. In October pastors from megachurches, evangelical ministers and leaders from such outfits as the Southern Baptist Convention lobbied members of Congress and organised eight days of nationwide prayer, citing gospel teachings about feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, and inviting in the stranger.
    "There are four lights!"

  • #2
    The immigration system is only "broken" because some idiot decided that illegal aliens had a right to challenge administrative deportation.

    Round them up and deport them. DNA sample each one and inform him that if ever found in the US again, he will go to prison. Intensity border patrol, with lethal force, and send the message that we aren't playing games anymore.

    These people are invaders and should be treated as such.
    The year's at the spring
    And day's at the morn;
    Morning's at seven;
    The hill-side's dew-pearled;
    The lark's on the wing;
    The snail's on the thorn:
    God's in his heaven—
    All's right with the world!

    Comment


    • #3
      Do what Nova suggested and then make company owners (not the HR people, not the supervisors), do 10 days in jail for each illegal alien the company hires without verifying status. If someone produces fraudulent documents that can withstand a normal check, that's different but if they just "affirm" their status or lie on an application with no additional verification, it's on the owner.

      Yes, this will disrupt some economic sectors for a while and prices will go up as labor under-cutting goes away but that's life in the Big City. The economy will adjust eventually and people who are now living in welfare swamps will be more motivated to seek out better paying jobs elsewhere once the illegal aliens are denied employment.

      We obviously can't do what we did in the 80s. That didn't solve any problems. We need to stop the in-flow, get rid of all the aliens on welfare, and then come up with solutions for those we want to naturalize.
      "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

      Comment


      • #4
        Businesses are already doing the government's job of collecting employee and sales taxes and are being made responsible for providing health insurance, might as well have them take care of verifying immigration status and fining them if they don't do all of this to the government's satisfaction.
        After all, it is not like the government is responsible for keeping illegal aliens out of the country.
        We are so fucked.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gary m View Post
          Businesses are already doing the government's job of collecting employee and sales taxes and are being made responsible for providing health insurance, might as well have them take care of verifying immigration status and fining them if they don't do all of this to the government's satisfaction.
          After all, it is not like the government is responsible for keeping illegal aliens out of the country.
          Haven't we all given up on relying on the Feds to protect our interests? We do background searches now on potential employees. That's not practical for most other other employers but they can at least do E-Verify.
          "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

          Comment


          • #6
            And, once again, the Limeys at The Economist prove that they know absolutely jack shit about American politics, but they still sure do like to talk about it. The article starts out pretty good, and then completely falls apart when it tries to describe the actual political situation, and is absurd in the proposed "solution."

            Immigration is a multi-faceted problem, to be sure. It has always been a political problem.

            The GOP, broadly-speaking, refuses to recognize that the immigration system, such as it is right now, is broken. It's a hot mess, as any objective observer would see. The Democrats are entirely beholden to the "immigrant rights" groups, meaning, of course "illegal immigrant 'rights.'" Both parties are increasingly salivating at the idea of hoping to capture millions upon millions of votes from illegals. The GOP, especially, is increasingly falling for this idiotic notion that if they just pander to criminals, the criminals will vote for them instead of the people promising to give them free shit. They're also very guilty of pandering to business interests that want this cheap labor that they can push around. The GOP, for the large part, is actually swallowing the "advice" of the Left about how to attract more votes, bizarrely never considering that maybe, just maybe, that advice is not in the best interest of either the country or, most specifically, the GOP.



            The next great big fuck-over is, unsurprisingly, Obamacare. The law clearly, specifically states that anyone who has been here illegally ever is ineligible for the exchanges and that employers are specifically forbidden from providing health insurance to anyone is not a citizen. So, who can't see what's coming? If you're an employer, and you are specifically forced to provide insurance to citizens, but specifically forbidden from providing insurance to non-citizens, what are you going to look for when hiring people?

            Yet another Obamacare unintended consequence that fucks over the American citizenry.



            We don't need some sort of pogrom of illegals in this country. We can handle the situation humanely, politely. But the GOP needs to take that first step of acknowledging that there is a problem, just like in AA. Then they need to actually address the problem. "Addressing the problem" is not amnesty for millions of illegals. Addressing the problem is getting those who are here and productive, but not citizens or legal residents, legal in a humane and reasonably polite fashion, while expelling those who are a detriment to our society, and then making sure that anyone who comes here does not suck up our entirely too generous social services.
            Bask in the warmth of the Deep South
            No one will be denied:
            Big law suits and bathroom toots;
            We're all getting Dixie-fried.
            But somewhere Hank and Lefty
            Are rollin' in their graves
            While kudzu vines grow over signs that read "Jesus Saves."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by gary m View Post
              Businesses are already doing the government's job of collecting employee and sales taxes and are being made responsible for providing health insurance, might as well have them take care of verifying immigration status and fining them if they don't do all of this to the government's satisfaction.
              After all, it is not like the government is responsible for keeping illegal aliens out of the country.
              This is what happens when the government doesn't do its job and everyone else has to pick up the slack. If the government could have kept out all these illegals (or deported them at first law enforcement contact) then businesses might not have to be so vigilant in checking citizenship.

              But as it stands, enforcing a penalty on businesses is right now the best way to keep illegals from gaining employment, which will encourage them to go home and/or come back legally. That includes checking during the hiring process and even keeping tabs on when a worker's visa or green card expires. When the documents expire, so does the employment. End of story.
              “Any sufficiently advanced capitalism is indistinguishable from rent seeking.” ~ =j

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Novaheart View Post
                The immigration system is only "broken" because some idiot decided that illegal aliens had a right to challenge administrative deportation.

                Round them up and deport them. DNA sample each one and inform him that if ever found in the US again, he will go to prison. Intensity border patrol, with lethal force, and send the message that we aren't playing games anymore.

                These people are invaders and should be treated as such.
                Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
                Do what Nova suggested and then make company owners (not the HR people, not the supervisors), do 10 days in jail for each illegal alien the company hires without verifying status. If someone produces fraudulent documents that can withstand a normal check, that's different but if they just "affirm" their status or lie on an application with no additional verification, it's on the owner.

                Yes, this will disrupt some economic sectors for a while and prices will go up as labor under-cutting goes away but that's life in the Big City. The economy will adjust eventually and people who are now living in welfare swamps will be more motivated to seek out better paying jobs elsewhere once the illegal aliens are denied employment.

                We obviously can't do what we did in the 80s. That didn't solve any problems. We need to stop the in-flow, get rid of all the aliens on welfare, and then come up with solutions for those we want to naturalize.
                One more proposal sure to decrease the attraction of coming here illegally:

                Phohibit the wire transfer of money offshore without proof of legal presence. No green card, no send money home.
                “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                I aim with my eye.

                "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                I shoot with my mind.

                "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                I kill with my heart.”

                The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                Comment


                • #9
                  Deporting millions of illegals is simply not possible, I'm afraid, although that would be the ideal solution.

                  A compromise:

                  Deport the ones who have committed crimes other than sneaking across the border. While I'm loath to reward criminal behavior, I could get behind giving the remainder permanent legal resident alien status.

                  But DO NOT reward them with citizenship. Do. Not. Reward them. Of course, the left, who see illegals as a Dem voting bloc, will never agree with this.
                  “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                  I aim with my eye.

                  "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                  I shoot with my mind.

                  "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                  I kill with my heart.”

                  The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by daveman View Post
                    Deporting millions of illegals is simply not possible, I'm afraid, although that would be the ideal solution.

                    A compromise:

                    Deport the ones who have committed crimes other than sneaking across the border. While I'm loath to reward criminal behavior, I could get behind giving the remainder permanent legal resident alien status.

                    But DO NOT reward them with citizenship. Do. Not. Reward them. Of course, the left, who see illegals as a Dem voting bloc, will never agree with this.
                    There are some here who did not sneak over the border. They have overstayed their visa or other visit. I am not sure but I don't believe that is a criminal offense.
                    "There are four lights!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by daveman View Post
                      One more proposal sure to decrease the attraction of coming here illegally:

                      Phohibit the wire transfer of money offshore without proof of legal presence. No green card, no send money home.
                      Good idea in theory. Not sure how practical it would be in application. But I wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

                      Originally posted by daveman View Post
                      Deporting millions of illegals is simply not possible, I'm afraid, although that would be the ideal solution.

                      A compromise:

                      Deport the ones who have committed crimes other than sneaking across the border. While I'm loath to reward criminal behavior, I could get behind giving the remainder permanent legal resident alien status.

                      But DO NOT reward them with citizenship. Do. Not. Reward them. Of course, the left, who see illegals as a Dem voting bloc, will never agree with this.
                      We still don't have to deport the bulk of them if we simply make the conditions intolerable for people who are here illegally. AFAIC, everyone who is arrested for something else (DUI, no license, rape, burglary, whatever) and found to be here illegally gets the boot as soon as the justice system is done with them: when you leave prison, you are put on a plane or a bus and you are sent back to where ever you came from, no ifs, ands, or buts. If citizenship is in question, you'll have plenty of time to demonstrate that while you're in prison. If you're not incarcerated for whatever you were arrested for, then you're detained until your citizenship status can be ascertained. I can get a birth certificate for anyone born in the United States within about 48 hours. I see no reason that this could not also be accomplished by jailers/ICE.

                      Then, make it a severe penalty for employers to employ illegals. Mandate e-verify for all new hires and mandate it for existing employees, with some window of time to implement back-verifying existing employees. Anyone who is caught employing an illegal who did not go through e-verify and/or did not have solid documentation allowing them to work in the US loses their business license immediately. Put the ones who make the hiring decisions in jail for substantial lengths of time. And insure that anyone who is not here legally may not receive any social services, even indirectly. That means that when Juanita wades across the Rio Grande to pop out her little niña, the niña can get services, but Juanita can't. Juanita does not get Section 8 or WIC or food stamps or anything else like that. The little niña can get all the services she needs as a United States citizen, but it won't be with Juanita; Juanita will have to find her own way.

                      Do those three things, and you'll have illegals fleeing this country like it was on fire. No need to deport them.

                      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                      There are some here who did not sneak over the border. They have overstayed their visa or other visit. I am not sure but I don't believe that is a criminal offense.
                      Depends upon the severity, I believe. If I am just a couple of weeks late leaving the country on a student visa, I think that's just a civil penalty for the first offense. If I stay over on my student visa and take a job, that changes the dynamic quite a bit, I think.
                      Bask in the warmth of the Deep South
                      No one will be denied:
                      Big law suits and bathroom toots;
                      We're all getting Dixie-fried.
                      But somewhere Hank and Lefty
                      Are rollin' in their graves
                      While kudzu vines grow over signs that read "Jesus Saves."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        There are some here who did not sneak over the border. They have overstayed their visa or other visit. I am not sure but I don't believe that is a criminal offense.
                        But there are MILLIONS who did sneak over the border.

                        Let's not reward them with citizenship, mmmkay?
                        “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                        I aim with my eye.

                        "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                        I shoot with my mind.

                        "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                        I kill with my heart.”

                        The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Adam View Post
                          Good idea in theory. Not sure how practical it would be in application. But I wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

                          We still don't have to deport the bulk of them if we simply make the conditions intolerable for people who are here illegally. AFAIC, everyone who is arrested for something else (DUI, no license, rape, burglary, whatever) and found to be here illegally gets the boot as soon as the justice system is done with them: when you leave prison, you are put on a plane or a bus and you are sent back to where ever you came from, no ifs, ands, or buts. If citizenship is in question, you'll have plenty of time to demonstrate that while you're in prison. If you're not incarcerated for whatever you were arrested for, then you're detained until your citizenship status can be ascertained. I can get a birth certificate for anyone born in the United States within about 48 hours. I see no reason that this could not also be accomplished by jailers/ICE.

                          Then, make it a severe penalty for employers to employ illegals. Mandate e-verify for all new hires and mandate it for existing employees, with some window of time to implement back-verifying existing employees. Anyone who is caught employing an illegal who did not go through e-verify and/or did not have solid documentation allowing them to work in the US loses their business license immediately. Put the ones who make the hiring decisions in jail for substantial lengths of time. And insure that anyone who is not here legally may not receive any social services, even indirectly. That means that when Juanita wades across the Rio Grande to pop out her little niña, the niña can get services, but Juanita can't. Juanita does not get Section 8 or WIC or food stamps or anything else like that. The little niña can get all the services she needs as a United States citizen, but it won't be with Juanita; Juanita will have to find her own way.

                          Do those three things, and you'll have illegals fleeing this country like it was on fire. No need to deport them.
                          I'm good with all that.
                          “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                          I aim with my eye.

                          "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                          I shoot with my mind.

                          "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                          I kill with my heart.”

                          The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                            There are some here who did not sneak over the border. They have overstayed their visa or other visit. I am not sure but I don't believe that is a criminal offense.
                            Interesting. Shouldn't it be?
                            Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                            Robert Southwell, S.J.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
                              Interesting. Shouldn't it be?
                              Naaaah. I'm sure they just forgot to get out when it was time.

                              Right, Billy?
                              “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                              I aim with my eye.

                              "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                              I shoot with my mind.

                              "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                              I kill with my heart.”

                              The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                              Comment

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