Even left-leaning Politifact calls Obama a liar

[scott]

Barack Obama says that what he'd said was you could keep your plan 'if it hasn’t changed since the law passed'


This whitehouse.gov webpage, which "debunks the myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors," was still up as of Nov. 5, 2013.

President Barack Obama’s attempt at explanation has only fanned the flames of controversy over his campaign line, "If you like your health care, you can keep it."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/nov/06/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-what-hed-said-was-you-could-keep/

It's amazing that people are so wrapped up in worship that they can't even admit their hero lied.

[Michele]

"If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out." - President Obama's address to Congress, 2009

[Adam]

It's amazing that people are so wrapped up in worship that they can't even admit their hero lied.

It truly is. The very same people who spent seven long years howling "Booooooooossssshhhh lllllllliiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeedddddd!!!!11!!!!1elevent een11!1" cannot manage to recognize the absolutely obvious, completely undeniable, flat-out fucking lied, over and over and over again. Bush's "lie" was, at the very worst, an excessive statement of the facts: Iraq did have WMD; we just don't know whether it was still there as of March 19, 2003. Obama's lie is just absolutely undeniable: no amount of weasel-words will somehow make what he said over and over again somehow true. The rationalizations for it are pretty amusing, though:

"Yeah, well ... well ... well ... what if your doctor got hit by a bus and knocked under a train and his arm got cut off?? Huh? Huh? He wouldn't be able to practice medicine then, and you'd claim that Obama lied about that. So there!"

[Norm dePlume]

It's amazing that Politifact is considered left-leaning. But then, we're all Southerners to the Inuit, I suppose.

[Norm dePlume]

That set of proclamations: "If you like your plan you can keep it. If you like your doctor you can keep them." That is a sales pitch. It's a lie in the same sense that "I'm lovin' it" is a lie in a McDonalds commercial. Sure, that guy might actually be lovin' that McRib in his hand at that moment. But in the overall course of that customer's entire lifetime experience with McDonalds, you can bet there will be some percentage of experiences that they will not love. Maybe their fries will be cold 0.5% of the time. Maybe they will get the wrong bag handed to them at the drive-thru window 1.3% of the time. They will not be "lovin' it" 100% of the time.

It was always clear to me that 100% of those people who like their doctor will not get to keep their doctor. What if your doctor dies? Was Obama promising to re-animate your dead doctor so you could keep them as your doctor? If your doctor retires, was Obama promising to bring the full force of government down on your doctor, forbidding them from retirement and forcing them to remain your doctor? If your employer goes out of business or stops providing health insurance or changes to another health insurance provider, I never thought that Obama was promising to swoop in and prevent that from happening. So, obviously, some percentage of people were going to lose a doctor or health plan that they were happy with, and Obamacare was not going to prevent that.

But it's reasonable to interpret the message as saying Obamacare would not be the cause of it. And to that extent, he should have been more forthcoming about the requirements that would apply to grandfathered plans. There is a lot of misinformation flying around about what grandfathered plans have to cover. But the truth is they have to have no lifetime payout limit (they can have annual limits, though); they cannot practice rescission; and if you have dependents on the plan they have to let you keep them on until age 26. If your plan doesn't comply with those things, they can come into compliance and still be grandfathered. But if they raise the premium by more than 5% plus medical inflation, they can lose grandfathered status. So in some cases, insurance companies will just say "screw it" and not bother. And in those cases, it's fair to say Obamacare was the cause of you losing that particular insurance policy. So for that 4% or so of people, it was a lie.

[phillygirl]

That set of proclamations: "If you like your plan you can keep it. If you like your doctor you can keep them." That is a sales pitch. It's a lie in the same sense that "I'm lovin' it" is a lie in a McDonalds commercial. Sure, that guy might actually be lovin' that McRib in his hand at that moment. But in the overall course of that customer's entire lifetime experience with McDonalds, you can bet there will be some percentage of experiences that they will not love. Maybe their fries will be cold 0.5% of the time. Maybe they will get the wrong bag handed to them at the drive-thru window 1.3% of the time. They will not be "lovin' it" 100% of the time.

It was always clear to me that 100% of those people who like their doctor will not get to keep their doctor. What if your doctor dies? Was Obama promising to re-animate your dead doctor so you could keep them as your doctor? If your doctor retires, was Obama promising to bring the full force of government down on your doctor, forbidding them from retirement and forcing them to remain your doctor? If your employer goes out of business or stops providing health insurance or changes to another health insurance provider, I never thought that Obama was promising to swoop in and prevent that from happening. So, obviously, some percentage of people were going to lose a doctor or health plan that they were happy with, and Obamacare was not going to prevent that.

But it's reasonable to interpret the message as saying Obamacare would not be the cause of it. And to that extent, he should have been more forthcoming about the requirements that would apply to grandfathered plans. There is a lot of misinformation flying around about what grandfathered plans have to cover. But the truth is they have to have no lifetime payout limit (they can have annual limits, though); they cannot practice rescission; and if you have dependents on the plan they have to let you keep them on until age 26. If your plan doesn't comply with those things, they can come into compliance and still be grandfathered. But if they raise the premium by more than 5% plus medical inflation, they can lose grandfathered status. So in some cases, insurance companies will just say "screw it" and not bother. And in those cases, it's fair to say Obamacare was the cause of you losing that particular insurance policy. So for that 4% or so of people, it was a lie.

So our Executive is now a pitch guy, not a fact guy?

[Billy Jingo]

So our Executive is now a pitch guy, not a fact guy?

WHIG the dog.

[Norm dePlume]

So our Executive is now a pitch guy, not a fact guy?

If by "now" you mean "since before any of us were born," then yes.

[Adam]

That set of proclamations: "If you like your plan you can keep it. If you like your doctor you can keep them." That is a sales pitch. It's a lie in the same sense that "I'm lovin' it" is a lie in a McDonalds commercial.

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

[Norm dePlume]

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

I'm not sure I understand your objection. You don't like the characterization of Obama's message as a sales pitch?

It's not that controversial.

The speech came during a sustained public relations blitz by Mr. Obama designed both to sell his plan to the American public and to put pressure on Congress to pass it.

[Gramps]

So our Executive is now a pitch guy, not a fact guy?

There is a problem with that post.

The 'loving it' pitch may entice someone to try McDonalds, but guess what? If they don't like it, they can probably get their money back, and at the worst have lost the cost of that purchase and have formed the opinion that they will not repeat the mistake of believing 'the pitch'.

In the case of Obama, you are stuck with it and the Government, to include that warm fuzzy entity known as the IRS, will enforce it.

Zero comparison.

[JB]

So Obama equates one-sixth of our nation's GNP to the Dollar Menu.

That actually explains a lot.

[Adam]

I'm not sure I understand your objection. You don't like the characterization of Obama's message as a sales pitch?

It's not that controversial.

Like I said, the rationalizations are quite amusing.

[scott]

It's amazing that Politifact is considered left-leaning. But then, we're all Southerners to the Inuit, I suppose.

Show us ONE conservative position taken by the Tampa Bay Times (formerly the St. Petersburg Times).

[scott]

I'm not sure I understand your objection. You don't like the characterization of Obama's message as a sales pitch?

It's not that controversial.

And in order to get it passed, he lied.


That's a real winner you support there.