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  • Uncivil Disobedience

    Uncivil Disobedience

    For the sake of argument, The Scrapbook is willing to concede that it is possible that Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher, ought to be allowed to graze his cattle on federal land in Nye County. And that protecting the desert tortoise as an endangered species on that same federal land is no good reason to impose a fee for grazing livestock. Reasonable people can disagree about these issues, and will do so.

    But in the United States of America, since 1789, we have had ways of settling these disputes. We have a judicial system that gives citizens due process and the right to seek redress for grievances. We have a political system that encourages citizens to elect people to public office who will pass laws we like, or rescind laws we don’t like, and uphold the laws they have enacted. We also have a Bill of Rights in our Constitution, the very first item of which protects the freedom of speech, allowing supporters and critics of laws to influence public opinion and government. All of these remedies have been, and remain, available to Cliven Bundy.

    Twenty years ago, the federal government, which owns the land on which Bundy grazes his 900 cattle, decided to impose a grazing fee. Bundy opposes that fee, has consistently refused to pay it, and the federal Bureau of Land Management now claims that he owes $1 million in unpaid fees. Bundy has challenged the grazing fee in federal court—indeed, has challenged the federal government’s title to land in Nevada—and has consistently lost. Sixteen years ago, a federal judge issued a permanent injunction against Bundy, ordering the removal of his cattle. Bundy appealed that ruling to the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and lost again. Last August, a federal court gave Bundy 45 days to remove his cattle, and in October, a federal district judge ordered Bundy not to “physically interfere with any seizure or impoundment operation.”

    This does not sound to The Scrapbook like the dread hand of tyranny, in Nevada or Washington, oppressing an innocent farmer, or pushing some law-abiding citizen around. It sounds, instead, like a rancher gaming the system to his own financial advantage, and disguising his scheme in populist rhetoric: refusing to pay a tax which others must pay, and “tying up the courts”—for two decades!—as he continues to ignore the law. Far from acting in an arbitrary or capricious manner, the federal government has shown patience and forbearance in the face of lawlessness that customarily lands people in jail. It is worth noting that Bundy’s rancher-neighbors and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association, who contend with the same federal policies, offer him little support.

    Bundy has exercised his First Amendment right to plead his case publicly and inflame his admirers. And inflamed they have been: A few hundred people from around the country converged on Nye County, Nevada—many armed and brandishing weapons—to disrupt the government’s attempt to enforce the law, taunting and attacking agents dutifully carrying out the orders of a federal court. Last week, fearful of violence, the BLM suspended its roundup and withdrew from the area.

    This is no victory for anyone other than Bundy and, The Scrapbook hopes, a temporary one at that. There is a term to describe the people who surround him, and it isn’t “militia.” The word is “mob.” And what this mob has practiced is not civil disobedience but armed provocation of a democratic government which has afforded Cliven Bundy every right and privilege as a citizen. One of Bundy’s supporters boasted to the press that “we were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front.” This is the same spirit that animates people who attack firemen during riots, or opposed school integration with violence in Little Rock, Arkansas. In that case, 57 years ago, President Eisenhower was obliged to send the 101st Airborne because, as he said, “mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.”
    Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

    Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

  • #2
    Well said.
    Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

    Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

    Comment


    • #3
      “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

      “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”


      You've got to be shitting me.
      Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

      Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

      Comment


      • #4
        “mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.” .

        I agree with that. I also agree that at certain times the government needs to decide if what they are trying to do is really worth it.
        Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
        Robert Southwell, S.J.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
          “mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.” .

          I agree with that. I also agree that at certain times the government needs to decide if what they are trying to do is really worth it.
          That's why I always carry a gun in the car. How badly do you want to write that speeding ticket? Is it worth killing for?

          Raising the stakes is a foolhardy tactic.
          Enjoy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
            That's why I always carry a gun in the car. How badly do you want to write that speeding ticket? Is it worth killing for?

            Raising the stakes is a foolhardy tactic.
            This has all been dangerously silly.

            It would make great context for a 1970's style madcap adventure movie, though. Or a terrible tragedy where the earnest and the innocent get killed, jailed, and killed in jail.

            I like the madcap adventure movie idea better. We have the lovable racist scamp who simultaneously loves his country and doesn't recognize its existence and cannot see the inherent dichotomy in that, and other (like decrying moochers while mooching) points of view he holds. Keystone Militia members always on the lookout for tyranny in a decidedly un-tyrannical country. Overzealous bureaucrats. The opportunistic, self important, bloviating, talking head. It's all there. All we need is the one guy or girl who is wholly and completely rational wondering around dumbfounded by it all and you have the smash hit, It's an Angry, Angry, Angry, Angry World.
            Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

            Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
              That's why I always carry a gun in the car. How badly do you want to write that speeding ticket? Is it worth killing for?

              Raising the stakes is a foolhardy tactic.
              So what was the purpose of the massive militarized police presence before all of Bundy's friends showed up?
              "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
              -John Locke

              "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
              -Newman

              Comment


              • #8
                It's so strange that the left has become so "law and order" with regards to many issues - except illegal immigration, gay marriage, recreational drugs, and trespassing on private property.
                "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                -John Locke

                "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                -Newman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by scott View Post
                  It's so strange that the left has become so "law and order" with regards to many issues - except illegal immigration, gay marriage, recreational drugs, and trespassing on private property.
                  Aren't they trying to change the first three through the legal system and the democratic process?

                  Not sure about the last one. I don't know of many advocates for squatting at the point of a gun.
                  Colonel Vogel : What does the diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?

                  Professor Henry Jones : It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try *reading* books instead of *burning* them!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by scott View Post
                    So what was the purpose of the massive militarized police presence before all of Bundy's friends showed up?
                    Might've had something to do with Bundy's public prediction of a "range war." Or maybe BLM guys just don't get enough chances to strap on body armor. But either way, they were there to seize cows.
                    Enjoy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                      Might've had something to do with Bundy's public prediction of a "range war." Or maybe BLM guys just don't get enough chances to strap on body armor. But either way, they were there to seize cows.
                      With air support.

                      Don't get me wrong, I thought the whole thing was silly and I was not inclined to join up and "stand against tyranny." It's very stupid to bring guns to a protest unless I actually plan on shooting it. But it was still a very good example of how quickly government bureaucrats blow things out of proportion.
                      "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                      -John Locke

                      "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                      -Newman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        Aren't they trying to change the first three through the legal system and the democratic process?
                        No, they are refusing to enforce the law right now.

                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        Not sure about the last one. I don't know of many advocates for squatting at the point of a gun.
                        You added the "point of a gun" part.
                        "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                        -John Locke

                        "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                        -Newman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by scott View Post
                          With air support.

                          Don't get me wrong, I thought the whole thing was silly and I was not inclined to join up and "stand against tyranny." It's very stupid to bring guns to a protest unless I actually plan on shooting it. But it was still a very good example of how quickly government bureaucrats blow things out of proportion.
                          Quickly? This started in 1993. This was the second attempt on a roundup.

                          The last time federal authorities laid plans to remove Bundy’s rogue livestock, in April 2012, it ended with veiled threats of violence and a hastily canceled roundup.
                          Enjoy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                            Quickly? This started in 1993. This was the second attempt on a roundup.
                            You've really got to read some more. The ordeal started in 1993, not the obviously out of proportion response. That happened quickly. It's typical when a cop (and these people typically think they are uber cops) has his authority challenged.

                            The BLM had the authority to remove the cattle, all they had to do was secure the premises and get to work. If Biven resisted have the Sheriff arrest him (whenever, he can't hold out forever) and remove the cattle then. This is not about removing cattle, it's about making a statement. Message received, these idiots should not have weapons.
                            "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                            -John Locke

                            "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                            -Newman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by scott View Post
                              You've really got to read some more. The ordeal started in 1993, not the obviously out of proportion response. That happened quickly. It's typical when a cop (and these people typically think they are uber cops) has his authority challenged.

                              The BLM had the authority to remove the cattle, all they had to do was secure the premises and get to work. If Biven resisted have the Sheriff arrest him (whenever, he can't hold out forever) and remove the cattle then. This is not about removing cattle, it's about making a statement. Message received, these idiots should not have weapons.
                              Oh, I need to read more. Okay, let's read:

                              The BLM gather had been in planning for months, according to Bundy. During recent conversations with Sheriff Doug Gillespie, Bundy had learned that the BLM planned to enforce an impound notice which had been issued in July 2011. The cattle were scheduled to be gathered and removed from the land on Wednesday by contract cowboys Catoor Livestock Roundup, Inc., Bundy said.

                              On Monday afternoon, April 9, as the situation became more volatile, Bundy and his family sprang into action. They contacted family, friends and sympathetic organizations to notify them of the situation. They also contacted the local and regional press.

                              In addition, Bundy sent notice to the Catoors, the Sheriff, the Clark County Commissioners and other state elected officials; promising to hold them liable for any loss of his cattle or equipment in the raid. In the notice, he urged the Sheriff to “say NO to this unconstitutional power without limitation seizure”.

                              “Cliven Bundy will do whatever it takes to protect his property and rights and liberty and freedoms and those of We the People of Clark County, Nevada,” the notice stated.

                              In an interview Wednesday with the Progress, Bundy said that he had been willing to defend his rights at all costs. If asked whether the matter might have come to violence he said, “Why not? I’ve got to protect my property. I have a right to life, liberty and property.”

                              But within 24 hours of Bundy’s notice, the BLM backed down. Bundy reported receiving another phone call from Sheriff Gillespie.

                              “He said he’d gotten a call from Washington that they were not going to do it,” Bundy said. “They were calling it off. He told me to go ahead and go back to ranching.”
                              Now, check the date: April 18th, 2012.
                              Enjoy.

                              Comment

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